Comments on: “We do not torture” is a lie – Exams reveal abuse, torture of detainees

By: saywhen

saywhen — Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:09:22 +0000

We rarely comment on comments – and even more rarely comment a second time. But there are so many inconsistencies in Uthelm’s missive that we feel it necessary to address them.

1. We are not taking terrorists’ word for anything – the article was about a human rights organization finding evidence of torture. We will presume that since these are physicians, they actually performed examinations rather than just having a chat.

2. We don’t understand some people – when there is something they disagree with in this conversation, they tell us to leave. The United States of America is founded on Free Speech. Not just YOURS – but everyone’s.

We’ve made no bones about our feelings for this administration on this site. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.

We do agree with our not being welcomed in Iraq or Afghanistan – and it’s not because they are jealous of lifestyles as this administration would have you believe. They see us as the enemy because of our foreign policy.

3. There is nothing in the article nor our comment that says 9/11 was government rhetoric. We have many family members of victims of the 9/11 attacks who are supporters. We grieve with them on every birthday and holiday.

We have many First Responders as supporters as well and they have told us their horror stories of that day. We are sorry you experienced that in any way.

What we believe to be rhetoric and propaganda is the “information” about the war on terror. We are no longer looking for Bin Laden – by Bush’s own admission he is no longer important. This war is about oil and empire building – plain and simple. And because the term “War on Terror” is so vague and ambiguous, there will never be an end. There is a virtually unlimited supply of boogie-men out there to fight.

4. As far as our being naive and uninformed – we suggest that is true of those of you who have not done any research or asked any questions, but have just taken what you’ve been spoon-fed by the mainstream media.

5. We appreciate your service to this country – and nothing in any of our posts or comments indicates otherwise.

6. We never equated religion with humane treatment. Our citation of religion, Christianity in particular, was in response to Mandaley’s comment about the Koran calling for beheadings. When one calls into question another’s beliefs, we feel they’d best be the embodiment of the tenets of their own “holy book.”

7. As we have said before – we sincerely hope that no one you know is deemed to be “an enemy combatant” and subjected to the treatment you are so willing to inflict on others.

8. The rest of the rant makes no sense to us in light of this article or our comment. It appears you just needed a place to vent and decided we were the ones to receive the benefit of your vast knowledge.

Again – if you dislike what you read here – go elsewhere.

By: Uthelm

Uthelm — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 17:58:44 +0000

Once again many are so quick to assume that the word of terrorists is more easily believed than that of their fellow citizens. Saywhen, how about you take that holier than thou rhetoric and go to…let’s say…Iraq or Afghanistan. Tell everyone that you are an American and see how long your “love thy neighbor as thyself” preaching will stand up. Will it last so long as to continue while they decide who will kill you and hang your corpse from the nearest bridge?
So 9/11 was government rhetoric and this is all a “knee-jerk” reaction to propaganda? Well, I was in NYC on 9/11 and I don’t think that the people jumping from those towers would agree with your unbelievably naive and uninformed opinion on the matter. Oh, and before you attempt to pawn me off as a know-nothing…I am a veteran who has served his country in good times and bad. Do I agree with everything that has transpired since 9/11? No I do not. That is why I vote. Good thing you live in a country where you have the opportunity to change what you see wrong, and espouse your personal opinion.
As to the state of this country, well no one ever said that we needed to be Roy Rogers and right every wrong in this world. I personally believe that we should let the chips fall where they may. Let the rest of the world fix their own problems. Pull our troops back and protect our borders. Oh, wait…then we will be at fault because we did nothing. Just like all the others, you are so quick to fault this country for being, human. Just like you like to quote scripture, isn’t there also a saying “let those without sin cast the first stone”? You equate religion with humane treatment and that you hope that the previous poster is not Christian. I hope that the previous poster is humane. If religion has anything to do with humane treatment, we are in serious trouble, looking at the state of the world today and what has been done in the name of god, allah, christ.
The Geneva Convention covers the treatment of PRISONERS of WAR, not enemy combatants. Enemy combatants, terrorists, do not submit to these conventions. Therefore, to equate their status with POW’s, is erroneous.
It is time for people like you to wake up and understand that the world is never going to be a shining example of heaven. Although America has its faults, I will take those and understand that we are not the world’s conscience, nor its savior. We have our own issues and need to stop trying to be all things to all people. We should only be controlling our own action and not trying to control what others are doing.

By: Ms. Kyle Christensen

Ms. Kyle Christensen — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:45:56 +0000

This report has nothing to do with the Taliban or Osama bin Laden. I would like people to know that most people in the US (including John McCain, super-lifer), are horrified about this torture. It puts us in a terrible postion–we now look like the terrorists. People that actually feel the way Mandeley does , should probably go join a militia group like Blackwater (its existence is against int’l. law, too, but the sort’ve stuff doesn;t seem to bother you). But, when you break the law, ddon’t expect thousand os US, NATO and Iraqi/Afghan forces to die trying to save you.

By: saywhen

saywhen — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 15:30:14 +0000

Mandelay -

Your comment saddens us in the deepest and most profound way.

WE ARE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. We set the standard for the humane treatment of prisoners. And yet now, we are refusing to follow the “guidelines” set forth at The Geneva Convention. We are above the idea of “they do it, then so can we.”

We sincerely hope you are not a Christian – if you are, we remind you that your holy book has a commandment given to its followers – “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

We are no longer the guys in the white hats – gallant saviors rushing in to save the day. We invaded a sovereign nation – something the United States has NEVER done before. As a result, there is a large portion of the world that sees us – you – as the enemy.

Perhaps it’s time to stop operating from a knee-jerk reaction to propaganda being put out by people who want you to react in fear. This “war on terror” is manufactured – and will continue until those who buy the government rhetoric hook line and sinker realize they’ve been had – by the very system they thought was going to protect them.

It is our sincere hope that the things you wish done to your fellow human beings is never done to you or someone you love.

By: Mandelay

Mandelay — Wed, 18 Jun 2008 14:30:20 +0000

It’s time to say “when,” when Bin Laden is captured. Meanwhile, the news of these examinations makes me wonder — why did we settle for torture? Why didn’t we settle for random kidnapping and public beheadings on the six o’clock news? The networks would have fallen over themselves to get an “exclusive” for the continuous execution show. The public would have accepted it just like any other “reality” show. Then we’d have an even comparison of ourselves and our enemies. Instead, we give you clean clothes, your special diet, your holy book (that you claim tells you it’s o.k. to behead us), your exercise, your lawyer, and now our supreme court says you can sue. What’s next? First class airfare “home?” Not likely. After enjoying the benefits of a free society, it would not surprise if you decided to stay on and plot your next plot, under the protection of the law. And Mr. Obamabot, if you’re out there listening to anything besides the sound of your own voice and the applause of your minions, the trial of the now convicted criminals who executed the first bombing of World Trade did not seem to deter the attackers who flew in for an encore on 9-11. Have we been attacked since? Obama, I’m pretty disgusted with your catering to terrorists as if they were naughty children. Grow up, Obama. This terror war is for real.