Welcome – this is the blog home of the Say “When” movement. The site – www.say-when.org – isn’t set up, nor should it be, for opinions and comments. It’s for people to visit and make their own decisions. But we found ourselves shouting at the monitor as we linked to entry after entry after entry – so we decided we’d start a blog of our own.

We’ll let you in on the best blogs, sites, news links, etc. that make our point. We will tell you right now – we will not debate you. We understand that there are a dwindling number of places where you can get agreement on your “red state, I Love GW” idiocy – please be clear that this is not one of them. We know that you have a limited capacity for what appears to be logical thought and resort to spouting “you’re unpatriotic, you hate America, and you hate our troops” rhetoric – you are full of cr@p on all counts and we are not amused!

For your edification, below are some quotes from a man considered by many to be the most patriotic of the signers of The Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson. If you choose to debate his statements, kindly take it up directly with him.

“When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”
– Thomas Jefferson

“Does the government fear us? Or do we fear the government? When the people fear the government, tyranny has found victory. The federal government is our servant, not our master!”
– Thomas Jefferson

Just to prove he was not alone, here are a few others –

“There are more instances of the abridgement of freedoms of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
– James Madison

“The people are the rightful master of both congresses and the courts. Not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.”
– Abraham Lincoln

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
– Edmund Burke

“It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds.”
– Samuel Adams

“Fear is the foundation of most governments.”
– John Adams

“They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
– Benjamin Franklin

So, folks – that’s it for the opening post. Rest assured, there will be more.

Say “When.”

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  1. illa morales

    “Our lives begin to end, the day we become silent about things that matter.” – Martin Luther King

  2. illa morales

    Articles of Impeachment

    of

    President George W. Bush

    and

    Vice President Richard B. Cheney,
    Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice,
    Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and
    Attorney General Alberto Gonzales

    The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors. – – ARTICLE II, SECTION 4 OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

    President George W. Bush, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales have committed violations and subversions of the Constitution of the United States of America in an attempt to carry out with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes and deprivations of the civil rights of the people of the United States and other nations, by assuming powers of an imperial executive unaccountable to law and usurping powers of the Congress, the Judiciary and those reserved to the people of the United States, by the following acts:

    1) Seizing power to wage wars of aggression in defiance of the U.S. Constitution, the U.N. Charter and the rule of law; carrying out a massive assault on and occupation of Iraq, a country that was not threatening the United States, resulting in the death and maiming of over one hundred thousand Iraqis, and thousands of U.S. G.I.s.
    2) Lying to the people of the U.S., to Congress, and to the U.N., providing false and deceptive rationales for war.
    3) Authorizing, ordering and condoning direct attacks on civilians, civilian facilities and locations where civilian casualties were unavoidable.
    4) Instituting a secret and illegal wiretapping and spying operation against the people of the United States through the National Security Agency.
    5) Threatening the independence and sovereignty of Iraq by belligerently changing its government by force and assaulting Iraq in a war of aggression.
    6) Authorizing, ordering and condoning assassinations, summary executions, kidnappings, secret and other illegal detentions of individuals, torture and physical and psychological coercion of prisoners to obtain false statements concerning acts and intentions of governments and individuals and violating within the United States, and by authorizing U.S. forces and agents elsewhere, the rights of individuals under the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth and Eighth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
    7) Making, ordering and condoning false statements and propaganda about the conduct of foreign governments and individuals and acts by U.S. government personnel; manipulating the media and foreign governments with false information; concealing information vital to public discussion and informed judgment concerning acts, intentions and possession, or efforts to obtain weapons of mass destruction in order to falsely create a climate of fear and destroy opposition to U.S. wars of aggression and first strike attacks.
    8) Violations and subversions of the Charter of the United Nations and international law, both a part of the “Supreme Law of the land” under Article VI, paragraph 2, of the Constitution, in an attempt to commit with impunity crimes against peace and humanity and war crimes in wars and threats of aggression against Afghanistan, Iraq and others and usurping powers of the United Nations and the peoples of its nations by bribery, coercion and other corrupt acts and by rejecting treaties, committing treaty violations, and frustrating compliance with treaties in order to destroy any means by which international law and institutions can prevent, affect, or adjudicate the exercise of U.S. military and economic power against the international community.
    9) Acting to strip United States citizens of their constitutional and human rights, ordering indefinite detention of citizens, without access to counsel, without charge, and without opportunity to appear before a civil judicial officer to challenge the detention, based solely on the discretionary designation by the Executive of a citizen as an “enemy combatant.”
    10) Ordering indefinite detention of non-citizens in the United States and elsewhere, and without charge, at the discretionary designation of the Attorney General or the Secretary of Defense.
    11) Ordering and authorizing the Attorney General to override judicial orders of release of detainees under INS jurisdiction, even where the judicial officer after full hearing determines a detainee is wrongfully held by the government.
    12) Authorizing secret military tribunals and summary execution of persons who are not citizens who are designated solely at the discretion of the Executive who acts as indicting official, prosecutor and as the only avenue of appellate relief.
    13) Refusing to provide public disclosure of the identities and locations of persons who have been arrested, detained and imprisoned by the U.S. government in the United States, including in response to Congressional inquiry.
    14) Use of secret arrests of persons within the United States and elsewhere and denial of the right to public trials.
    15) Authorizing the monitoring of confidential attorney-client privileged communications by the government, even in the absence of a court order and even where an incarcerated person has not been charged with a crime.
    16) Ordering and authorizing the seizure of assets of persons in the United States, prior to hearing or trial, for lawful or innocent association with any entity that at the discretionary designation of the Executive has been deemed “terrorist.”
    17) Engaging in criminal neglect in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, depriving thousands of people in Louisiana, Mississippi and other Gulf States of urgently needed support, causing mass suffering and unnecessary loss of life.
    18) Institutionalization of racial and religious profiling and authorization of domestic spying by federal law enforcement on persons based on their engagement in noncriminal religious and political activity.
    19) Refusal to provide information and records necessary and appropriate for the constitutional right of legislative oversight of executive functions.

    20) Rejecting treaties protective of peace and human rights and abrogation of the obligations of the United States under, and withdrawal from, international treaties and obligations without consent of the legislative branch, and including termination of the ABM treaty between the United States and Russia, and rescission of the authorizing signature from the Treaty of Rome which served as the basis for the International Criminal Court.

  3. illa morales

    Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of
    Congress. But I repeat myself.
    –Mark Twain

    We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is
    like a man standing in a bucket
    and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
    –Winston Churchill

    A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the
    support of Paul.
    –George Bernard Shaw

    A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which
    debt he proposes to pay off with your money.
    –G. Gordon Liddy speaking for Bob Hansen

    Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting
    on what to have for dinner.
    –James Bovard, Civil Libertarian

    Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer from poor people in rich
    countries to rich people in poor countries.
    –Douglas Casey, Classmate of W. J. Clinton at Georgetown U.

    Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car
    keys to teenage boys.
    –P.J. O’Rourke, Civil Libertarian

    Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to
    live at the expense of everybody else.
    –Frederic Bastiat, French Economist(1801-1850)

    Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short
    phrases:
    If it moves, tax it.
    If it keeps moving, regulate it.
    And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
    –Ronald Reagan

    I don’t make jokes. I just watch the government and report the
    facts.
    –Will Rogers

    If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it
    costs when it’s free.
    –P.J. O’Rourke

    If you want government to intervene domestically, you’re a liberal.
    If you want government to intervene overseas, you’re a conservative.

    If you want government to intervene everywhere, you’re a moderate.
    If you don’t want government to intervene anywhere, you’re an extremist.
    –Joseph Sobran, Editor of the National Review at one time

    In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as
    possible from one part of the citizens to give to the other.
    –Voltaire(1764)

    Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn’t mean
    politics won’t take an interest in you.
    –Pericles(430 B.C.)

    No man’s life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is
    in session.
    –Mark Twain

    Talk is cheap, except when Congress does it.
    –Unknown

    The government is like a baby’s alimentary canal, with a happy
    appetite at one end and no responsibility
    at the other.
    –Ronald Reagan

    The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the
    blessings. The inherent blessing of socialism
    is the equal sharing of misery.
    –Winston Churchill

    The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the
    taxidermist leaves the skin.
    –Mark Twain

    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
    fill the world with fools.
    –Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher(1820-1903)

    There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress.
    –Mark Twain

    What this country needs is more unemployed politicians.
    — Bob Johannesen
    The only good politician is a dead politician
    –Andy Craig

  4. Laura See-Taylor

    Because I guess I just can’t resist banging my head against the wall, I have borrowed some of the excellent quotes you provided for the following post on a shared forum where citizens like us are just trying to figure out who to vote for, and end up with Ron Paul (based mainly on his promises and voting records). Until someone asked how is he going to do this, and the answer was “he will utilize the dictatorship clauses of the Patriot Act”.

    ARGHHH! And you almost had me sold.

    I just can’t believe using undemocratic methods to fix the problems will result in a better democracy.

    “There are more instances of the abridgement of freedoms of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
    – James Madison

    Throughout the world’s history, dictators do not relinquish any of their power once they’ve grabbed it. It takes a war. The most recent example, would of course be Saddam Hussein, another current, Castro; so even those not that well-versed in history can see the pattern. I am more versed in ancient history, but won’t bore you with the details.

    If you want Ron Paul to win, you must relay to him there is a better way. The democratic judicial system must apply to public servants! What Americans want to hear from a candidate, is that legal charges will be made against public officials who have been blatantly ignoring and flaunting and writing the laws, who now can hide behind “malfeasance in office” and getting slaps on the wrist, with illegally obtained funds comfy in their bank accounts. If anything more than a resignation is requested, which is the current norm.

    There is no distinctly native American criminal class save Congress.
    –Mark Twain

    Martha Stuart goes to jail for taking advice from her stock broker, the man she pays for advice. So why hasn’t Diane Feinstein gone to jail for delibrately being informed of which Iraq-related bids were from her husbands companies; when
    THE LAW SPELLS OUT “BLIND BIDS” while on the Appropriations Committee. She claims coincidence, that all his companys’ contracts were the ones signed (billions of tax $)? After discovery in 2005, she resigned from the
    Appropriations Committee. She is still a long term member of the Ethics Committee, charged with overseeing investigations of these type of criminal actions within Congress.

    Ms. Feinstein broke a law that any one else would go to jail for.

    The general public needs a candidate who commits to prosecuting these type of acts, where American taxpayer money is literally stolen by public officials, and not just with the protection “malfeasance while in office” we want the actual Criminal charges if made as if it was in the public sector, AND TREASON, gross and delibrate missuse of public office! Currently, a former Illinois governor convicted criminal is getting $150,000 in retirement pay per year, plus medical and other benefits.

    When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”
    – Thomas Jefferson

    It is not democracy if there are two sets of laws, and there can be no democracy by “utilizing dictatorship” powers.

    With his excellent track record of government service, experience and knowledge, Mr. Paul should recognize that.

  5. Perrie

    Perhaps a reading from this website – http://micahnelson.com/ – will offer some insight into Dr. Paul. Maybe Mr. Nelson can address your concerns from a different standpoint than your average voter.




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